We have the edges, now it's time to start filling in the gaps. Photo: CrazyPhunk via Wikimedia Commons.
That discussion made me start thinking about the piecemeal nature of Spartanburg’s business community. It’s almost like a jigsaw puzzle: Until you have enough pieces put together, you really can’t see what the missing parts of the picture are. Maybe it’s too optimistic, but I think they years of sustained effort by the local community have gotten Spartanburg to the point where — to extend the metaphor a little — the edges of the puzzle have been mostly completed, and now we’re trying to fill in the picture itself.
A good example of this is that the city is sharp enough to realize that in order for downtown to become revitalized, people need to start spending money there. There are some very promising initiatives to get people to visit downtown, but at the moment there’s surprisingly little to do once you’re there. It’s better now that it once was — you can at least go out for a drink or a meal after seeing Jazz on the Square, for instance — but the options are still limited.
There’s no bookstore to browse, no late-night cafes, no music shops, few cool specialty stores or boutiques. These events — which I’d still argue are successful in their own terms — aren’t able to grain the economic traction they might otherwise. If it works, the theory is that it’ll attract the right businesses; the right puzzle pieces.
There seem to be missing pieces all over the place; things you’d expect to find in a city of this size which are conspicuously absent. For instance, we have a sizable student population in the city, and it’s a common complaint that local students actually leave Spartanburg to spend their money in Greenville. Yet very few businesses that actually cater to typical student interests. It’s another obvious gap in the picture.
Some of the pieces are at the City or County level. Every Sunday afternoon, for instance, Spartanburg loses what I’d guess are tens of thousands of dollars in retail sales to downtown Greenville and shops across the N.C. border, simply because they’ve made it possible to buy beer and wine at grocery stores. It would take a referendum to change the rules at the City level, and that’s clearly a missing piece.
You can actually see a kind of negative business happening at the local level in this case. Money that could be staying in Spartanburg is leaving the city, instead supporting business in other towns. It’s not because they don’t like the city or support local business, it’s because there’s a service that’s not available here.
It makes the city look economically weaker than it really should, because we’re effectively exporting our wealth. I’d argue it also tends to create this defeatist attitude — “It’ll never work here” — which is absurd. Much less promising cities have done more with less.
What if Spartanburg’s economic malaise wasn’t just the result of a handful of big employers closing up shop? (Clearly that’s part of it, I’m just saying it’s not the end of the discussion.) What if it was just a few missing puzzle pieces — a handful of stores and restaurants, some changes in the local laws, some better incentives to attract specific kinds of businesses to the city — that would turn things around? What if it was a matter of filling in the gaps, and trying to slow the flow of money out of the city?
Which brings us to today’s sweeping, slightly vague Big Idea: What’s missing from Spartanburg?
To address that, we need a brainstorming session. We need to think of what’s missing from the city. These can be specific businesses that really should be here, changes to the city infrastructure or laws that might help, or even things that existing businesses can do to improve conditions for the economic situation as a whole.
Again, this is a brainstorm: There are no bad ideas. Impractical ones? Sure, but those can also serve as the mental springboards for other, perhaps more likely, alternatives.
Steve Shanafelt
This may be a chicken & egg scenario, but why not make downtown Spartanburg a desirable place to live, not just visit for food and entertainment. Mid and upscale lofts, row-houses, apartments, even a condo building with spectacular views. This also buys into the sustainability concept — a desirable and walkable downtown, centralized to the rest of the county, where people can live, and where restaurants and businesses exist because they are part of the 24 hour “neighborhood”.
gb, do you live in Spartanburg? It’s already a great place to live. Hampton Heights is 4 blocks from Main Street, there are apartments scattered throughout DT, condos, etc. Lots of us already live here, we just need things to do!
I’m no Hampton Heights hater, but think it’s odd folks in forums here never mention Converse Heights in downtown discussions. I live in Converse Heights and it’s less than a mile from my house to Morgan Square. I’ve walked it many times. Plus, I’m not even on the closest edge of the neighborhood to downtown.
Several Spark contributors (both in forums and opinion pieces) seem to think of HH as this new Bohemia where all the cool kids live while CH is perceived as a bastion of “old money” and conservative ideals. I’m proud to have Cate Ryba, Will Rothschild, and Ned Barrett in my neighborhood (among others with less immediate name recognition). These folks put their heart and soul into some pretty progressive organizations (Mary Black Foundation, Upstate Forever, etc).
Golf claps for Hampton Heights AND Converse Heights. Great places to live. Cool old houses. Creative neighbors. Close to all things artistic in Spartanburg.
Lucas,
Definitely not trying to exclude CH! I used to live there, as well. You’re right-it does need to get mentioned right along side with HH as far as a DT neighborhood. I guess since HH is RIGHT THERE, I think of it as THE DT neighborhood purely based on proximity.
I’m not sure where this dynamic came from, but it really doesn’t serve much purpose when you look at it. Then again, you see the same sort of dynamic within Hampton Heights, where certain streets even have their own cliques. I’d imagine this is true in Converse Heights as well.
It’s kind of silly though. And since both Chris and I are in Hampton Heights (not part of the same street-based cliques, sadly), the issues here may get slightly over-represented.
Maybe we need a regular contributor from Converse Heights to even things up? Are you available, Lucas?
Duncan Park is close too and it’s always left out. It is a gorgeous City neighborhood that I would consider much more ‘bohemian’ than HH. Well, parts, I guess. Like Steve said…different streets in every n’hood have their cliques. Anyhoo, I was out canvassing in DP the other day and Forrest Avenue is possibly one of the most beautiful streets in our City.
Angie -
I’m not in Spartanburg, but am familiar with the wonderful neighborhoods of Converse and Hampton Heights. I was thinking more in line of denser urban development closer within the city center. I’m sure some study has been done someplace that calculates how many people per square mile is necessary to create critical mass in developing a dynamic city center for more restaurants, shops, etc. When I’ve walked from Hampton Heights to the city center, there’s a heck of a lot of underutilized & unpopulated space, and it’s kinda lonely being virtually the only person on the side-walk.
I think GB’s point is well-taken. Before I finally found a home on Spring Street (thanks to the Preservation Trust) I was sort of at a loss for a “downtown” place that I could buy. The apartments are nice, though _some_ are pretty pricey. And I was really excited when the Library Commons was first announced, but totally dejected when I saw how expensive they would be. There is something missing in the core downtown area – whether it’s row houses, townhouses, or bungalows that are middle-class affordable. Betsy’s idea last week of the “hub-bub homestead act” is so great for that reason – because it could offer some space for single-family houses in the core of downtown. Also, I think that the two blocks or so of Spring Street between Henry and Broad definitely has in-fill potential. It’s a big gap in the connection between Hampton Heights and the square. I’d like to see something useful go there – it might be the spot for a row of townhomes – facing Spring and Harris Place.
I have a feeling that the “density” that GB mentions probably is the key to so much other stuff happening. There have to be enough people resident in downtown to support all of these restaurants, bookstores, coffee shops, and stores that we all want to have.
Coffee shop has been mentioned many times. I’m Dave, and I have been trying since the spring to bring the sit-down coffee shop back to Spartanburg. It’s not easy, and the prime culprit is the depressingly high costs of leasing. One would think that with so many boutique shops being abandoned on the eastern stretch of Main street, realtors would at the very least show more negotiation transparency to get a business in the door.
That’s just not the case, and it is quite frustrating. In the past few months, I’ve looked at nine locations (including the former location where The Sandwich Factory used to be) and the scenario was either cost per square foot was just unacceptable, or the realtor had done no rehabilitation to the property, and left it entirely to the tenant to build the space, and pay for construction.
Another trend that depresses me is seeing in the paper everyday about large grants going to big business and upper echelon of business development. Either small businesses are getting the shaft, and are being forced to operate out of pocket, they’re being very quiet about city involvement, or local government is just saying ‘good luck’ to the little guy aside from SBA grants which-honestly-aren’t enough to even think about getting the ball rolling.
I want to change that. So badly it hurts.
Hey Dave, i’m dave. I agree 100%. There is either no clue amongst owners of downtown buildings, or there is a concerted effort to be absurdly close-minded and selective about the “kind” of businesses in the downtown core.
Empty shops aren’t making money, so apparently these building owners don’t need the cash. Are they unwilling to admit that they can’t have some sort of Disneyland Mall downtown? Why would they not be willign to work with local folks who want to be the first wave of fun, interesting businesses downtown.
Now, I’m not from Spartanburg, or even this part of the country. And i get that upstate SC is very, er, stuck in it’s ways. But is that really what’s holding downtown back? IS the downtown controlled by a bunch of people who can’t accept that the Leave it to Beaver world has changed a bit?
I was recently on antibiotics and couldn’t drink alcohol for two weeks. It wasn’t so bad during the week while I was working, but once Saturday night rolled around, I realized there was NOTHING to do here except go out to a bar. I racked my brain all night for something to do, but once the clock strikes 9pm in Spartanburg, it’s go out and drink, or stay at home. You can eat and drink, see a band and drink, sing karaoke and drink, or dance and drink, but there’s just nothing particularly exciting to past 9pm without an alcohol-induced haze.
I thought it would be cool to have something like an arcade or fun park that’s geared towards adults and stays open extra late. Kind of like Barcode in NY or Block E in Minneapolis.
I second this. It would be awesome.
I agree. We do have 1 “fun park” in town, and I know many people that refuse to give them money because of their “holier than thou” (literally) approach at business. I don’t think they are open very late either, and not open on Sunday. As a result, they go to Greenville.
Re the arcade: Tampa has a place like that called Gameworks; it’s an arcade and a bar and it’s awesome. I don’t think it would work in Spartanburg, though it would cater well to college students.
I think one of the problems is what R Williams mentioned: all late night options seem to feature bars and loud music in some form. The problem is that if you actually want to talk or have something other than a beer, you’re most likely to stay at home. Additionally, it cuts substantially into college students’ ability to enjoy downtown since half the population at at least 3 institutions (Wofford, Converse, and Upstate) and the bulk of the population at another (SMC) are under 21. Thus, and I hate doing the “like Greenville” thing, but something like Coffee Underground: occasional live music, multiple coffee and dessert options, some sandwiches, and a few beer and wine options as well as liquered coffees. A place quiet enough to have a first date, cool enough to hang out on weekends, and friendly enough not to scare away younger, middle-aged, and older couples. One of the problems with Morgan Square Cafe/Sandwich Factory was that it closed at 4. I still think the concept could work if the location actually stayed open late.
I’d also, personally, like to see Jazz on the Square diversify into multiple music genres (not everyone likes jazz, and not all jazz is created equal), possibly even into a showcase for local music of all kinds.
I ran into this problem when I was under 21. I actually did go to Coffee Underground a couple of times because of it.
More late-night options including an Arcade (becoming 18+ after hours?) and a Coffee house that serves a variety of ‘delectables’and features live local music would be really good for the college crowd and me, in my humble opinion.
it’s a spooky walk from HH to DT at any time of the day at best,and getting past the college inn comming from CH without seeing the cops whip in, think about it, who wants to make the walk at dinner time and hurry up eat so we can shop and get home before dark, nuff said kb
What exactly are you scared of? I live in HH and walk downtown to meetings, walk for miles in downtown for exercise all the way over to Converse Heights and back. My kids love walking to Jazz and Spring Fling and Monsoon and to the library. More reasons why we love our proximity to downtown…but I realize we live in a town that thinks the parking garages are too far from downtown…so it’s not for everyone. Neither is living out in the middle of nowhere down a long driveway with a no tresspassing sign at the end of it pretending I’m “safe” from the rest of world. To each his own.
Even though our downtown is not as nice as Greenville’s, at least you can still walk around at night like was said. It could be worse: we could be having teenage gangs and thugs making it impossible for people to enjoy downtown like you seem to have in Greenville hehehe.
I’d also like to see more cool places to shop downtown, like a trendy vintage clothing store or something like Black Market Minerals in Charleston.
I was thinking this the other day actually–just having more specialty shops in general would be nice. Lots of people love more restaurant variety to pull people downtown, but you can really only eat once. I think specialty shops would keep people around longer.
Asheville also comes to mind. Wonder how something like Himalaya’s Import would do here.
Love the idea of the arcade. I was thinking about this earlier and San Fran has some great pinball bars where people who don’t drink or are under 21 can enjoy themselves. Maybe it is just a good non-sports bar with a good offering of arcade & pinball games and not a dedicated gaming place. A place that also offers billiards and Darts like Barley’s Tap Room upstairs in Asheville would be great to attract the college and under 21 crowd.
On the topic of drawing the student population and the adjacent neighborhoods we need better connectors to the downtown, i.e. a nicer walk. Than means well marked pedestrian crossings, landscaping/street furniture, lighting, etc. Easier said than done because these are really part of city street improvements. The recent lighting and bike lanes from HH have gone far to better the connection ton Downtown. Comments?
About downtown itself; The landowners need to lower their rent, specifically for retail/office space. As I understand it the market forces aren’t fully coming to bear on downtown. Many of the downtown property owners are old money families who do not depend on rental or lease income for their livelihood so they either a) have an empty lot or building and are just sitting on it or b) are charging ridiculously high prices/sf to lease or rent. Are we just supposed to wait for these people to die off and let their estate sell the property to someone who will actually utilize the land/building? What we need to do about the vacant buildings and properties is to have the city enforce code and accessibility compliance and when faced with having to dump money into an unused building or lot the owners will either fully develop and market their property or sell it. I know it is a small town and the city doesn’t want to make any enemies but downtown can’t suffer any more from the old mill-town mentality.
City council also needs to get their act together and pass the master plan including the downtown urban code and design standards (that our tax dollars paid for!) so we don’t have any more law offices or residences opening up shop on the ground floor of what should be vibrant retail space.
In terms of what is missing downtown: definitely a cafe/bakery with internet and late hours, an ice cream/gelato place again open later than 4pm. A brunch offering, a good made-to-order brunch place (not the buffet style that Brasserie and Cornbread to Caviar does), a good sandwich shop (please better than the horrible Groucho’s), a thrift/book store (think higher end pawn shop), some active artist studios maybe live work spaces?
We have some great galleries including Crescent, Carolina Gallery & Myst however it is all traditional painting at high prices. We need some edgy more attainable art like what we see at Hub-Bub’s art mart and some peek into the messy world of a working artist; raw creativity. The city sponsored artist studios along the reedy river art walk in Greenville is a great example. The city could partly sponsor this. For whatever subsidy they may spend on a program like this there may be a much greater payback in how it could activate downtown and encourage spin off business. Maybe a creative property owner could lower their rates and get something like this started with their now vacant building?
More live music (rock & roll). The new Blues Boulevard has some great Jazz and there is Jazz also at the new Cornbread to Caviar, we again have Jazz at Jazz on the square. Enough jazz. I know Delaney’s has live music but I haven’t ever heard anything good about it. Music on main has its following but we need a year-round indoor venue with good talent. This could be part of the gaming/arcade non-sports bar mentioned above. (There would definitely be room for a place like this in one floor of the old Kress building?)
We could also use a place like Mass General in Asheville and other locations. Evidently they were looking at Spartanburg to open a new location a while back but they had some steep concessions required and the City couldn’t deliver. Maybe it will happen in the future? That would bring a good amount of traffic downtown.
We obviously need some good reasons for people to locate downtown, lower lease rates? initial tax abatements? Pro business low-interest loans? We have some new businesses opening up in second or third-rate spaces far away from downtown (Celebrities, Converse Deli, The Cuban place @ Hillcrest, the new Mexican place at the old Las Palmas next to Target, Dudley’s, etc) with poor visibility and/or definitely no foot traffic and they could be downtown with much more business. These are the puzzle pieces at the edges, why not focus on filling the middle?
One of the anchor stores in Brevard where I used to live is a unique shop called OP Taylors. They have a second location in Greenville. They sell toys, collectibles, games books and some candy. It is a little kid’s dream, and the hobby collector can find vintage style toys and things.
I know the owner of the stores and he started off with the one little corner store that has expanded retail space at the anchor store, expanded to the Greenville location and does a killer internet business. Something like his place would be a boon to downtown.
I LOVE Brevard (my dad was from there) and OP Taylors was a required stop for my wife and I even before we had our own kids. It’s just fun! I’ve not been to the one in Greenville, but it would be tough to imitate the ambiance of the Brevard store.
Brevard is such a small town and yet they have a downtown movie theatre and so many other cool attractions (oodles of coffee houses, soda shops, etc).
Obviously they have a tremendous asset that Spartanburg doesn’t (Pisgah National Forrest), but we could do much worse than emulating some of their successes in creating family-friendly (read: alcohol free) options to appeal to as broad of a potential patron base as possible.
I think there is a huge failure in the department of alcohol purchase. I’ve had people over who ran out of beer at 2 AM and drove to Gastonia (keep in mind these people live in Charlotte) to get more because it was officially Sunday. Restaurants and stores are missing out on high margin sellability because of when they can’t sell alcohol. Then, thinking ahead, we can have more alcohol abuse treatment centers to accommodate the new Sunday alcoholics!
Downtown is a complete dead zone. Can anyone explain to me the reasons why these building owners would prefer an empty building to a reasonable rent for an interesting business that will draw people downtown?
I honestly am beginning to think there is something bizarre I just don’t understand going on in Downtown Spartanburg. To use steve’s metaphor, I have to wonder if some essential pieces are missing from the box or being hidden by someone?