The future of Spartanburg? Let's not get ahead of ourselves ...
In a good many of these discussions — particularly with people who have been active in the city for the last decade — there’s been a strange sense of inevitable failure. This isn’t the first time there’s been momentum towards some kind of vibrant downtown, they tell me, but every time this has happened in the past, something — or some collection of forces — has brought it all to a screeching halt. There’s a kind of fatalism there, as if Spartanburg’s future was someone defined solely by its past.
To me, that’s a poisonous idea based on cowardly thinking.
A good example of this idea is that Spartanburg doesn’t currently have a late-night cafe. Never mind that it has had successful cafes in the past, and that — as far as I’ve been able to tell — the reasons these places closed had little or nothing to do with the viability of the place as a self-sustaining business. Yet, the current thinking in the minds of many people who are actually involved in downtown business — people who should really know better — is that Spartanburg simply can’t sustain a cafe.
And that’s just one example of this strange “Can’t do” attitude I’ve run into lately. Other examples include: the frankly laughable idea that downtown is simply unable to attract college students (provide a place for them to go to that actually caters to their interests, and it’ll be swarmed with students); the idea that Spartanburg can’t attract smaller, web-savvy businesses and instead needs to focus on manufacturing jobs (rubbish); and the bizarre belief that no downtown business is viable unless it’s on the Main Street drag (meanwhile, dozens of great, wildly undervalued buildings downtown sit vacant mere blocks away).
So, in an effort to break with this defeatist attitude, I’d like to do a little thought experiment. Let’s imagine the downtown Spartanburg we’d like to visit exactly five years from now, on May 20, 2014.
Further, let’s assume that none of the “It will never work here” arguments hold any kind of validity — they don’t anyways — and that while several businesses we’re imagining may one day fail, that they could at least plausibly exist in this imaginary future.
I’ll start: The Spartanburg of 2014 has …
Free downtown WiFi covering the entire city, and the vast majority of the neighborhoods near downtown. The cost of this was minimal, pulling from the city’s existing bandwidth plus the cost of installing and maintaining a few WiFi towers. This move has caught the attention of all manner of tech-savvy people, several of whom decided to relocate their businesses here because they can work from anywhere within the city. As a result, many of the local colleges’ brightest minds have employment options in Spartanburg, decreasing the brain-drain that saw talented people leave the area for more promising job prospects in places like the Research Triangle, Greenville, Charlotte and Atlanta.
One excellent late-night cafe. They found a great spot on a side street just a few blocks from the main drag downtown, and they’re buying the building rather than leasing it. As a result, they can stay open all hours of the night, have live music and have attracted a loyal group of patrons — including many college students looking for a chill place to hang out off campus — who go there for the atmosphere. It’ll never compete with Starbucks, sure, but it’s a healthy local business and a credit to the community.
A nice, comfortable new/used bookstore and newsstand, complete with a few snacks. It’ll never be the money-maker that a Barnes & Noble is, but it gives people one more place to visit when they come downtown. They’re on Main Street, and the rent really should be a little higher given the square footage, but the landlord realizes that having this one business acts as a kind of magnet for the other businesses in the area. He even gave them a 10-year lease.
A small organic and health-food grocery, just the thing for people who live near downtown and believe in the idea of active living. Sure, the prices are a little high by comparison to Ingles or Publix, but it’s worth it. And they even have a small deli with both indoor and outdoor seating. Various people in the city government could have made it hard for them to get their permits, but thankfully they realized the value of having this sort of business downtown and actually helped the process proceed instead.
The City and County have worked together to make Spartanburg’s Blue Laws some of the least restrictive in South Carolina. The impact on the city has been significant, largely because it demonstrates a progressive attitude that is rare in South Carolina.
That’s just a start, of course. Let’s hear your ideas on what a possible future Spartanburg could be like.
Steve Shanafelt
The focus on a city that is losing population each census count is doomed to failure .The inspectors that you have to deal with to do any renovation is super restrictive , chaotic and non consistent(look how they almost bankrupted Gattiland and I have heard from others that they would never deal with the city gov again).If you get on the wrong side of the good ole boy system of Spartanburg government you are screwed and doomed to spend alot of unnecessary money that other counties/city do not have to deal with . The blue laws are insane every modern non taliban conservative realizes that but are afraid to be labeled as non church approved , then you never win any kind of public office in Spartanburg again . I guess Papa Sams is not an uber cool or trendy cafe , just like A1 news or Pic a book was not uber enough for the trendy, uppity crowd either . Sure I am bitter , I went in a financial hole moving my business from the city because the city gov lied and said they needed my building (which still sits useless). I have watched the city turn down a Nascar muesuem in recent years,to the county turning down a huge race track in the late sixties (which I think was daytona), to the city spending 15k to paint water towers to look like trees , to paying 10k for a ss city logo , to running businesses out of town because they did not fit their model of what they wanted . How many times has the city changed roads in downtown?I wish the uppity people of Spartanburg would quit trying to be a hippie town of beggars like Ashvile or a snobby Charleston .Stick with accenuating the positives of this county/city . Embrace what it actually is , a town with rich music history , town of world class colleges , a town of great food and a potential to have a great night life like it had in the past with Drive in movie theaters ,active fairgrounds with all kinds of outdoor concerts.I am not saying to dumben it down so much as saying really deal with the actual population , not what you want the population to be . Kudos to those that have actually worked to get a limited music venue like hub bub and a skate park , but to grow the city would need to multiply that by ten and spread it beyond a few blocks in a little area of horrible parking and crime
“The focus on a city that is losing population each census count is doomed to failure.”
Where is this attitude coming from? I don’t just mean with you, Mick, I mean with half of the people I’ve met in this town? I’ve met so many people who look at the situation that way, and while I’m not saying your business was given a fair shake — it seems like quite the opposite — it’s hardly definitive proof that the city is doomed and we should all give up and move if we want to live in a town that’s actually interesting and vibrant.
It’s exactly that view that I can’t wrap my mind around. Just because something stupid, ignorant, dismissive or short-sighted happened in the past doesn’t mean that everything in the future is going to be that way. I mean, if local politics are the problem, let’s get a handful of people with a clue elected to City Council. Let’s get some forward-thinking people involved in the boards and in the positions to get rid of the old-boy network. I think that’s doable in five years, easy. But you can’t get there by saying “It’ll never work.”
I’m not trying to invalidate your experiences, of course. But I am saying that the situation not only COULD change, but in fact IS changing. And I’m sure as hell not going to be the guy who says “It didn’t work a decade ago, or five years ago, or last year … so it’ll obviously never work. So don’t even try.”
That position is absurd. It’s not going to be magically different this time next week, with chirping birds and free hugs. It’s going to be a slow, constant, often difficult change. If everything goes perfectly, most of the new businesses downtown will still fail, because most businesses do. There’s going to be a lot of bad noise and dumb decisions. There’s going to be posturing, veiled threats and open disdain. But as long as there is motion and momentum, the direction this city is headed in can be influenced by its citizens.
And Papa’s is a fine place — I ate there yesterday — but they don’t have espresso drinks. It’s a diner, not a coffeehouse.
“The focus on a city that is losing population each census count is doomed to failure .”
I believe that in the realm of social theory we refer to this as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Spartanburg will never be anything as long as it has people with this sort of attitude.
“The blue laws are insane every modern non taliban conservative realizes that but are afraid to be labeled as non church approved , then you never win any kind of public office in Spartanburg again”
It’s simply not been brought to the forefront as an issue. Trust me, at the city level at least, most people want the Blue Laws gone. All we need is vocal enough group bringing the issue to the table.
“I guess Papa Sams is not an uber cool or trendy cafe , just like A1 news or Pic a book was not uber enough for the trendy, uppity crowd either”
Bitter much? Papa’s is great, but it’s a diner, not a coffeehouse.
“I have watched the city turn down a Nascar muesuem in recent years,to the county turning down a huge race track in the late sixties (which I think was daytona)”
Anyone who thinks that a Nascar museum would’ve been any real tourism draw to the area is smoking way better stuff than I am. The track they turned down eventually became Talladega not Daytona, and I’m glad they turned it down. I don’t want that noise-polluting, redneck-tourist-bringing crap here anyway. Call that elitist if you want I suppose, but there are better ways to bring money in than a big obnoxious racetrack.
“to the city spending 15k to paint water towers to look like trees , to paying 10k for a ss city logo , to running businesses out of town because they did not fit their model of what they wanted . How many times has the city changed roads in downtown?”
How is it relevant to 2009 (let alone 2014) to talk about things that happened in the 60′s thru the 90′s? Apparently you haven’t heard yet, but leaders are elected, and the ones we currently have aren’t the same ones that kicked you out of downtown, though you still seem to have a chip on your shoulder about it. In your mind, that gives you the right to take it out on the whole city I suppose.
“I wish the uppity people of Spartanburg would quit trying to be a hippie town of beggars like Ashvile or a snobby Charleston ”
There’s that bitterness again. Not to belittle my hometown or anything, but I think we’d do pretty well to emulate some of the things going on in that hippy town of beggars called “Ashvile” (or Asheville as the locals spell it I believe), or the snobby Charleston. Looking at cities with vibrant downtown sectors and using their approach as a sort of guidepost for how to grow your own downtown is just smart city planning.
“Embrace what it actually is , a town with rich music history , town of world class colleges , a town of great food and a potential to have a great night life like it had in the past with Drive in movie theaters ,active fairgrounds with all kinds of outdoor concerts.”
Has anyone suggested we shouldn’t embrace this? Why does embracing things like this preclude us from growing the downtown area?
“but to grow the city would need to multiply that by ten and spread it beyond a few blocks in a little area of horrible parking and crime”
Now we’re getting to the real heart of this issue with you. It looks like you don’t want the city doing anything with downtown because you’re afraid it’ll draw people away from Ground Zero. I’m not saying the city didn’t do you wrong. In fact I’m sure they did, but that was like 13 or 14 years ago now right? Things have changed more than a little since then and you can shit all over what the “uppity” people are trying to do now if you want to, but in the end if you’re open minded about it, I’m sure your business would benefit from it too.
No one would deny that you’ve brought some great acts into town that wouldn’t have came here otherwise. No one would deny that your business has been a net positive for the area. All that being said though, I don’t understand the negativity and the grudge-holding. I suppose you can try to divide the area between the “uppity” downtown people and the “real” people that apparently you represent but in the end, how is that helpful? From where I’m sitting, it all just reads like a bunch of sour grapes and defeatist bullshit. Sorry, but that’s just how I feel about it.
I just wish Spark and Oskar wouldn’t nit-pick every little thing that someone who is commenting writes. You ask for people’s comments and then you have to critique every little thing they say? Just chill out!
With that said, I don’t know for sure about the first poster but when most people talk about the “uppity” folks on the Eastside, they are not referring to your downtown crew who longs for another Asheville, but they are rather talking about the old-money, Converse Heights people. If you are wondering who is partly to blame for stalled efforts to make downtown Spartanburg more appealing like downtown Greenville (or yes, Asheville) you may want to take a look at them.
Again, I’m less interested in pointing fingers at why this progress hasn’t happened downtown in the past, and more interested in trying to find the means to accomplish it in the future. I’m not really concerned with what happened downtown ten years ago, or even last year. I’m talking about the downtown that we’d like to exist five years from now.
What would we like that downtown to be like, and how can we get there?
“I just wish Spark and Oskar wouldn’t nit-pick every little thing that someone who is commenting writes. You ask for people’s comments and then you have to critique every little thing they say? Just chill out!”
I’m sorry to ruin your experience by “nit-picking”, but no one’s forcing you to read what I wrote. As far as what I said, I wouldn’t have bothered if the first poster was just some random guy, but it was Mick Minchow. In case you don’t know, he’s the owner of Ground Zero, and pretty much a legend in the local music scene. The guy has done a lot for the town, but to reading that vile hate-filled venom he was spewing about “the trendy uppity people” made me sick (and if you weren’t able to put it in context, yes he’s talking about the hub-bub/downtown set).
For someone who’s been such a large part of the Spartanburg underground cultural scene for so long to turn around and show such disdain for the efforts of others and call them names was incredibly disrespectful to my eyes, and no I won’t let that sort of thing slide. Hope that helps place the “nit-picking” in context for you.
Ok what do I want to see in 2014?
Well for starters, somewhere on main street there’s an actual authentic brew-pub, a place where you can grab a pint of craft ale brewed and served by people who know what craft beer is, a place that’s really all about the beer. Nothing particular beyond that as far as atmosphere, but a stage for the occasional live show would be nice.
R J Rockers is downtown and thriving. They’ve added more styles to their lineup like an IPA with a strong floral hop nose and a nice bitter finish.
Some enterprising young film buffs have started a small art house theater (hey a guy can dream right) somewhere in town finally ending all my griping about Spartanburg (and Greenville too for that matter) not getting the good indie stuff. Nothing to challenge the huge stadiums, but a good place for film people in town catch the latest stuff. Also serves as the genesis for a Spartanburg film festival inspiring those creative vloggers out there to put together their own original pieces for the big(ish) screen.
And just for a little more fun we now have a cool dinner theater a la Cafe And Then Some in Greenville.
All of this was made possible by the people of Spartanburg working together by taking the already existing creative components of the area and weaving them together to form the community we wanted to live in. We have a cooperative city government because we stopped complaining about our city government and elected forward thinking people willing to make to moves to create the environment for a creative, progressive city to thrive.
The old arguments of “us vs. them” are still there of course, but these days they’ve been relegated mostly to the Stroller, and a few other corners where the complainers like to talk about how these newcomers and “uppity” types have ruined their beloved Spartanburg.
Posting this from the downtown cafe in Spartanburg 2014. Joe Gibson’s has reopened to sell our lovely city flying cars but they’re not selling well since everyone already has a jetpack anyway. The robot butler factory that opened on the westside after the tragedy at westgate mall nearly decimated the entire city has given our city the relief in the job market it desperately needed.
All in all we’re a lot better than we were back in your time. Then again now that we have time machines that phrase “your time” is mostly meaningless isn’t it?
Spartanburg has NEVER had a successful robot butler factory, so it’s obvious that it’ll never work. Let’s all give up.
The city, under the leadership of a bold new mayor, has undertaken a comprehensive public-private redevelopment effort of Main St. between Church and Dean. There is (or will soon be) a Mast General Store, a brew pub, at least two local coffee shops, a tapas restaurant, an Atlanta Bread Company (or similar), new gift shops and other eateries. There’s also a great park and gathering spot off Main St. (where the farmer’s market used to be located). Little by little, Main St. Spartanburg is looking more like Greenville’s and becoming a destination in its own right.
Barnet Park is now showing weekly movies in the park in the summer months after the city realized this ingenious idea was a winner from a local church.
Duncan Park baseball stadium is in the process of being refurbished and expanded and the city is courting a Single-A baseball team to come there.
The city, in conjunction with the convention and visitors bureau, has decided to transform the Magnolia St. Depot into the Upcountry Railroad Heritage Center and Museum.
I am a little bitter and not worried about getting the city crowd to come here to my establishment, we get a few people from the city but most are from the outskirts or different towns altogether, half our crowd is from greenvile . I tried doing all kinds of events at first for all kinds of people . The fact is not many people really support the arts . They talk about it for a few months or even have internet pissing contests about it but when something else distracts them its put in the back of their mind with the other clutter that had good intentions . Few people actually stick with something and cool places turn unhip after the newness wears off,I loved RJ Rockers , but when the hipsters saw it not being hip anymore it went away . Why would someone want to invest everything they have for a clique group of people that will easily soon abandon your project when the next hot girl comes to town? I have chosen to do good shows for music lovers and ride the trends so I am in a way guilty but its survival for me ….. I know the comment on the nascar musuem would get called redneck or whateve but I was looking at the business end of having the largest sport in America to have their shrine here .It would be a part of making money for the city to finance other dreams . The Java Jive was a coffee place , but not supported by the locals enough to stay open , great idea though . I wish everyone would admit when they talk about revitalizing the city they are talking about the little area of main street and church street , just a few blocks , thats what we are really talking about . Anyway I got to go back to work .Sorry to poo poo some of the city folks , but I did not have the $45 for a ticket for the ballet at the arts center . Hubbub cool , showroom cool , skatepark cool , I still think the artsy goals are set too high for the average citizen .