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	<title>Comments on: Flying Oskar: Standing Up For Religious Tolerance At Dorman High School</title>
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	<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/</link>
	<description>Because Spartanburg Matters</description>
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		<title>By: Mary Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-7341</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-7341</guid>
		<description>Good job with this Christopher.  It is encouraging to hear about the young people involved in the effort to defend their rights (and ultimately all our rights).  I live in housing that receives federal funds, but owned by Christians.  The same issue is apparent here.  I find it presumptious and offensive for the owner/managers to practice their religious preferences at our &#039;community&#039; events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good job with this Christopher.  It is encouraging to hear about the young people involved in the effort to defend their rights (and ultimately all our rights).  I live in housing that receives federal funds, but owned by Christians.  The same issue is apparent here.  I find it presumptious and offensive for the owner/managers to practice their religious preferences at our &#8216;community&#8217; events.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-7340</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-7340</guid>
		<description>Define conservative please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Define conservative please.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher George</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6600</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6600</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve really got to lay off those right-wing talking points Hagerman.  They don&#039;t suit you.

For what it&#039;s worth, I don&#039;t really disagree with the idea that people are often too sensitive, but I don&#039;t really think that applies here.

This is about a school allowing a blatantly Christian speech at a public school graduation.  Nobody&#039;s whining about being offended.  They just want what is Constitutionally right.

This speaker went so far as to say that people without Jesus in their lives would have no stability.  In another setting that&#039;d be no big deal.  Just tell the guy to get over himself and go on about your business.  But the public school setting makes this a whole different thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve really got to lay off those right-wing talking points Hagerman.  They don&#8217;t suit you.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I don&#8217;t really disagree with the idea that people are often too sensitive, but I don&#8217;t really think that applies here.</p>
<p>This is about a school allowing a blatantly Christian speech at a public school graduation.  Nobody&#8217;s whining about being offended.  They just want what is Constitutionally right.</p>
<p>This speaker went so far as to say that people without Jesus in their lives would have no stability.  In another setting that&#8217;d be no big deal.  Just tell the guy to get over himself and go on about your business.  But the public school setting makes this a whole different thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Hagerman</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6599</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Hagerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6599</guid>
		<description>Can we get a thumbs sideways button? I&#039;m too indecisive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we get a thumbs sideways button? I&#8217;m too indecisive.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Hagerman</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6598</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Hagerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6598</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t disagree. In fact, I agree with you greatly. Furthermore, I don&#039;t want children to be indoctrinated in any way on my dollar. Of course, being a single person with no children, I don&#039;t much care to pay for your children or their education but, that&#039;s a bit off subject. Point being, you&#039;re right and you&#039;re wrong. Keep God out of school (cool everyone&#039;s happy, except for the morons that think that this will somehow lead to the degradation of society). But, let&#039;s be honest, everyone has become far too sensitive. I think the knuckle dragging meat heads call this the feminization of America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t disagree. In fact, I agree with you greatly. Furthermore, I don&#8217;t want children to be indoctrinated in any way on my dollar. Of course, being a single person with no children, I don&#8217;t much care to pay for your children or their education but, that&#8217;s a bit off subject. Point being, you&#8217;re right and you&#8217;re wrong. Keep God out of school (cool everyone&#8217;s happy, except for the morons that think that this will somehow lead to the degradation of society). But, let&#8217;s be honest, everyone has become far too sensitive. I think the knuckle dragging meat heads call this the feminization of America.</p>
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		<title>By: chAng</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6583</link>
		<dc:creator>chAng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6583</guid>
		<description>Some would say the constitution is designed to protect us from a tyrannical government, and I&#039;d agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some would say the constitution is designed to protect us from a tyrannical government, and I&#8217;d agree.</p>
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		<title>By: chAng</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6582</link>
		<dc:creator>chAng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6582</guid>
		<description>I never said I don&#039;t care for our free speech law, if the 1st amendment is what you mean by that. 

The hate crime bill of 09&#039; (now quietly tucked away in the Defense Appropriations Bill for Fiscal Year 2010) is a perfect example of how free speech is under attack. Some point out it would make it criminal for preachers to quote the parts of the Bible that say homosexuality is wrong, whether it is or it isn&#039;t is beside the point here. I personally am not against homosexuality by the way, each to their own I say, -but remember: &quot;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof&quot;

Though my point, it legislates against peoples thoughts and motivations rather then their actions alone. 

And what about this new regulatory czar Cass Sunstein&#039;s proposal to ban &quot;falsehoods&quot;.. vaguely defined at the presidents discretion?  

I don&#039;t know man, you keep saying &quot;checks and balances make democracy work&quot; in context to a free and just society? -I&#039;d like to hear it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never said I don&#8217;t care for our free speech law, if the 1st amendment is what you mean by that. </p>
<p>The hate crime bill of 09&#8242; (now quietly tucked away in the Defense Appropriations Bill for Fiscal Year 2010) is a perfect example of how free speech is under attack. Some point out it would make it criminal for preachers to quote the parts of the Bible that say homosexuality is wrong, whether it is or it isn&#8217;t is beside the point here. I personally am not against homosexuality by the way, each to their own I say, -but remember: &#8220;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof&#8221;</p>
<p>Though my point, it legislates against peoples thoughts and motivations rather then their actions alone. </p>
<p>And what about this new regulatory czar Cass Sunstein&#8217;s proposal to ban &#8220;falsehoods&#8221;.. vaguely defined at the presidents discretion?  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know man, you keep saying &#8220;checks and balances make democracy work&#8221; in context to a free and just society? -I&#8217;d like to hear it.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6579</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6579</guid>
		<description>A moment of silence is a wonderful idea but seniors vote on giving a prayer ... if the vote is affirmative, they must accept the first volunteer and cannot squelch his expression of religious freedom in any way ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A moment of silence is a wonderful idea but seniors vote on giving a prayer &#8230; if the vote is affirmative, they must accept the first volunteer and cannot squelch his expression of religious freedom in any way &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6578</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6578</guid>
		<description>I agree chaplain is an odd student office. I wonder what kind of fodder it makes for college applications these days. Must be a carryover from the sixties that no one has bothered to address. 

As far as official sanction, from what I know, school administrators have to allow the first volunteer to address the audience in prayer. And heads would roll if anyone thought of coaxing a resident Buddhist or Muslim student to be the first to volunteer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree chaplain is an odd student office. I wonder what kind of fodder it makes for college applications these days. Must be a carryover from the sixties that no one has bothered to address. </p>
<p>As far as official sanction, from what I know, school administrators have to allow the first volunteer to address the audience in prayer. And heads would roll if anyone thought of coaxing a resident Buddhist or Muslim student to be the first to volunteer.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6576</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6576</guid>
		<description>Stand for seven minutes while you&#039;ve come to celebrate a milestone in a loved one&#039;s life and see how tolerant you feel after being told about the hell that you deserve or that you are a worthless hypocrite.

Some of these students who volunteer to do the prayer make a mockery of the meaning of the word invocation. Its purpose is to seek blessings for the group, not to serve as a call to the altar. 

However, educators are required to allow students to say whatever they want, lest their freedom of religion be denied. Too bad the students graduate without learning a lesson in creating an inclusive, positive speech full of goodwill that exudes decorum and graciousness ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stand for seven minutes while you&#8217;ve come to celebrate a milestone in a loved one&#8217;s life and see how tolerant you feel after being told about the hell that you deserve or that you are a worthless hypocrite.</p>
<p>Some of these students who volunteer to do the prayer make a mockery of the meaning of the word invocation. Its purpose is to seek blessings for the group, not to serve as a call to the altar. </p>
<p>However, educators are required to allow students to say whatever they want, lest their freedom of religion be denied. Too bad the students graduate without learning a lesson in creating an inclusive, positive speech full of goodwill that exudes decorum and graciousness &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: P.K.</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6571</link>
		<dc:creator>P.K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6571</guid>
		<description>These are not stupid know-it-all children who just want to create conflict.  These are young adults who have worked within the system all along the way, even though the process has been tedious and unrewarding.  Far from wanting to create conflict, they have gone out of their way to be respectful and polite, and have made a point to invite other voices into an intelligent discussion.

People being &quot;too sensitive&quot; is NOT the real source of the trouble.  The real source of the trouble is that inappropriate messages are being delivered at public school functions.  Worship Jesus at church.  Worhsip Jesus at home.  Do not worship Jesus at school, and do not tell our children that they should likewise worship Jesus.

Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are not stupid know-it-all children who just want to create conflict.  These are young adults who have worked within the system all along the way, even though the process has been tedious and unrewarding.  Far from wanting to create conflict, they have gone out of their way to be respectful and polite, and have made a point to invite other voices into an intelligent discussion.</p>
<p>People being &#8220;too sensitive&#8221; is NOT the real source of the trouble.  The real source of the trouble is that inappropriate messages are being delivered at public school functions.  Worship Jesus at church.  Worhsip Jesus at home.  Do not worship Jesus at school, and do not tell our children that they should likewise worship Jesus.</p>
<p>Amen.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Hagerman</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6570</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Hagerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6570</guid>
		<description>On one hand, I agree greatly with you all. Separate my church and state. 

On the other hand, I think that these stupid know-it-all children just want to create conflict. Which I can&#039;t actually disagree with either. I did a bit of rabble rousing as a young one. 


Everyone is far too sensitive. That&#039;s the real source of the trouble. I can stand beside someone praying their asses off and not feel an ounce of awkwardness. If I were at a school that was Muslim by the majority I wouldn&#039;t exactly feel alienated by their prayer. I would just suck up. But I&#039;m tolerant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On one hand, I agree greatly with you all. Separate my church and state. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I think that these stupid know-it-all children just want to create conflict. Which I can&#8217;t actually disagree with either. I did a bit of rabble rousing as a young one. </p>
<p>Everyone is far too sensitive. That&#8217;s the real source of the trouble. I can stand beside someone praying their asses off and not feel an ounce of awkwardness. If I were at a school that was Muslim by the majority I wouldn&#8217;t exactly feel alienated by their prayer. I would just suck up. But I&#8217;m tolerant.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6569</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6569</guid>
		<description>I think a moment of silence is a perfect idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a moment of silence is a perfect idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher George</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6567</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6567</guid>
		<description>I would have no problem with a moment of silence, and I doubt most others would either.  It allows the individual to do whatever he or she wishes without imposing anything on anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have no problem with a moment of silence, and I doubt most others would either.  It allows the individual to do whatever he or she wishes without imposing anything on anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher George</title>
		<link>http://www.spartanburgspark.com/2009/10/26/flying-oskar-standing-up-for-religious-tolerance/comment-page-1/#comment-6566</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartanburgspark.com/?p=7446#comment-6566</guid>
		<description>Actually, I wasn&#039;t refering to the &quot;speech&quot; part of the 1st amendment, I was refering to the two clauses on religion, both of which are specifically designed to protect minority views, as is the &quot;speech&quot; clause.

Sorry to see that you don&#039;t care for our free speech law either.  Most civil libertarians consider our free speech law to be the model of the world.  The only real limitations are libel and slander, both of which are notoriously hard to prove in court, with good reason.  

It may not be perfect, but it stacks up pretty well against any other nation&#039;s free speech law.  We don&#039;t even prosecute holocaust-denying neo-Nazis like they do in some European countries.  Everyone here is free to believe what they want, and publish those beliefs if they want as well.  Not perfect, but I wouldn&#039;t trade it.

I have to disagree with your assessment that this is somehow an assault on democracy from me.  I think you&#039;ve misread things a bit.  The fact that these kids were able to hold a rally despite the fact that their views are so unpopular--&quot;assembly&quot; in the 1st amendment-- is a testament to democratic rule.  The fact that groups such as theirs--small committed groups--are so often able to affect change is a wonderful example of minority rights in a democratic system.

Our system isn&#039;t as simplistic as &quot;majority rule&quot;.  If it were, we wouldn&#039;t have had an end to Jim Crow back in the 60&#039;s.  Take a look at some of the polling data from back then.  It&#039;s pretty eye-opening as far as how few people actually wanted equal rights for African Americans.

Majority rule must be tempered with checks and balances.  While not perfect, our constitution set up a government that does that pretty well most of the time. Are there blind spots? Sure.  When it comes to protecting civil liberties and minority opinions though, our system does a pretty good job if you ask me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I wasn&#8217;t refering to the &#8220;speech&#8221; part of the 1st amendment, I was refering to the two clauses on religion, both of which are specifically designed to protect minority views, as is the &#8220;speech&#8221; clause.</p>
<p>Sorry to see that you don&#8217;t care for our free speech law either.  Most civil libertarians consider our free speech law to be the model of the world.  The only real limitations are libel and slander, both of which are notoriously hard to prove in court, with good reason.  </p>
<p>It may not be perfect, but it stacks up pretty well against any other nation&#8217;s free speech law.  We don&#8217;t even prosecute holocaust-denying neo-Nazis like they do in some European countries.  Everyone here is free to believe what they want, and publish those beliefs if they want as well.  Not perfect, but I wouldn&#8217;t trade it.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with your assessment that this is somehow an assault on democracy from me.  I think you&#8217;ve misread things a bit.  The fact that these kids were able to hold a rally despite the fact that their views are so unpopular&#8211;&#8221;assembly&#8221; in the 1st amendment&#8211; is a testament to democratic rule.  The fact that groups such as theirs&#8211;small committed groups&#8211;are so often able to affect change is a wonderful example of minority rights in a democratic system.</p>
<p>Our system isn&#8217;t as simplistic as &#8220;majority rule&#8221;.  If it were, we wouldn&#8217;t have had an end to Jim Crow back in the 60&#8217;s.  Take a look at some of the polling data from back then.  It&#8217;s pretty eye-opening as far as how few people actually wanted equal rights for African Americans.</p>
<p>Majority rule must be tempered with checks and balances.  While not perfect, our constitution set up a government that does that pretty well most of the time. Are there blind spots? Sure.  When it comes to protecting civil liberties and minority opinions though, our system does a pretty good job if you ask me.</p>
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